Ashwin Cheriyan:
Thank you, Simon. Excited to be here.

Simon Mainwaring:
For every entrepreneur, there’s that pivotal moment, whether you’re in a corporate job or whether you’ve had an exit from another business, that pivotal moment where you decide to start something new. What was that moment for you Ash?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Exactly four years and one day in New York, I practiced law at a fairly large firm.

Simon Mainwaring:
Corporate lawyer. I’m so sorry.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. So currently I’m recovering. It’s a lifelong journey to recover from that. But funny enough, the day I started was September 2008 and I was waking up getting ready to go to work and looking at the news. It was the day that Lehman brothers fell. It was effectively kicking off the financial crisis and I remember thinking to myself, man, it would be tough to be the law firm that does legal work for Lehman. I show up at work and guess what it was the firm that I was starting at. It was a little bit of an odd day to begin, but managed to make it through that period and again, exactly four years on the dot decided to leave. Actually I took a four month honeymoon. As you mentioned again, Thistle was started by myself and Shiri Avnery. We’re co-founders, we’re also married, we’re classmates from college. We’ve known each other since 2000 and we had just gotten married in the summer of 2012. I think we use that opportunity to really evaluate what is it that we want to do over the course of the rest of our lives. Not just personally, but professionally, because I think a lot of people try to separate those two things. But if you are dedicated to doing your best, whether it’s personal or professional, those worlds collide, and you have to examine those pretty closely.

Simon Mainwaring:
I have to say, though as a guy who’s been married 28 years, the idea of working with your partner, that’s a thing. It’s a real conscious decision. How did you think through that? Is that something you thought, this’ll be great for our relationship? Or did you think let’s just try and see if it works.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. So I think the best relationships, whether personal or professional are ones in which you compliment the other person. So if you have different skill sets, if you have different but complimentary of approaching problems and you’re able to do it with respect and empathy, again, these are reasons why relationship works out. I also think that’s the reason why a professional relationship works out. So oddly, we had already checked the box on we felt that we could be with each other, solving the problems of life. Why not just apply that to a company now. It’s scary and terrifying to go do that but we figured it can work and knock on wood, it’s going fantastically.

Simon Mainwaring:
Tell us about that process because it’s great that you came together and said let’s launch something that’s going to be meaningful to both of us. But there’s so much need out there. There’s so much marketplace opportunity. We’re all interested in so many different things. How did you land on a meal subscription service?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. Believe me we did not leave our jobs saying let’s go launch a subscription delivery company doing high quality plant-based meals. That was absolutely not what was said. Where we started where, what were the big problems or areas that for us felt like we were most passionate about. There were two that surface very quickly to the top. Even though I was a lawyer, very unhappily, I actually come from a family of physicians. My parents are physicians and in fact, my great grandmother who lived to be 102 years old, passed away three years ago, of her direct descendants there were almost 40 doctors. She literally spawned a hospital. And I think the joke is, that’s why she lived to be past a hundred. The relevant portion of kind of sharing that is growing up, I learned over the dinner table, over conversations, who are the patients that physicians are typically seeing. And it turns out it’s not the case that physicians are treating patients for all sorts of novel illnesses or things that you would see on a television show or a movie. Patients are coming in by and large for call it the 10 most common reasons why someone in a developed country like the US will get sick and eventually die. The number one reason is cardiovascular disease. It’ll kill one in three people every single year followed quickly by type two diabetes, obesity, certain forms of cancer, stroke, hypertension, the list goes on and on. And all of these are heavily correlated to diet and exercise. The frustrating thing for a physician is all I can do in my arsenal is I’ll give you some medicine to treat your symptoms, but I will recommend that you have to make a behavioral change. And without fail, that person will go take the medicine, come back for a follow-up visit and do nothing to change their behavior because changing behavior is hard.

Simon Mainwaring:
It is and so you’re constantly caught up in this remedial business where you’re trying to fix things after the problem, rather than being in a preventative business, which is, Hey, let’s avoid causing those problems in the first place.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
That’s right. And so the medicine may alleviate the symptoms. It may actually extend your lifespan, but it does nothing to improve the quality of your life. Who cares if you get an extra 10 years if those extra 10 years are bad years where you’re struggling to be mobile, et cetera. From a physician standpoint, healthcare came down to this notion of behavior change and preventative medicine. And as a physician, you’re not armed with the tools to go do any of those things to help the patient actually get better. That was a problem that I had been exposed to early on. It was something that I’d always thought about and in thinking about areas where I wanted to see if there was an opportunity to help people solve what I felt like was a powerful problem. That was one that surfaced very much to the top.

Simon Mainwaring:
Yeah. Which side of your brain were you listening with at that point? Was it like, Hey, I’m looking for a marketplace opportunity, so it was rational. Or were you listening more with your heart from a purpose led point of view and trying to decide what’s going to be meaningful to us? Or was it both?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
I think it’s a little bit of both. I think for us, particularly for Sherri and I, we wanted to live life with purpose. We came from a very privileged place. I immigrated to this country. My parents worked their butts off where they actually were practicing physicians in India, decided to immigrate here and the funny thing is the US does not accept the credentials for the Indian medical system. My parents, who were practicing physicians, had to go back into residency at the age of something like 35 with two kids, with other residents that were 10 years younger and have to redo their training. They came in restarted purely so that my brother and I could have better opportunities in this really great country. This notion of watching my parents build their own business, their own practice from scratch. Just seeing that while growing up was something that was very inspiring. For me, it was the notion of starting and building something from scratch was something that I always wanted to do. Just because I had seen my parents go through it and do it and take such pride in building things from scratch. That bigger drive was there.

Simon Mainwaring:
Sure. What was the reception you got? Because there’s always that moment of inspiration for every entrepreneur, no matter what you do. And then just as quickly, there’s always that reaction from friends and family who often say, Hey, great idea. And you do realize that you’re 100% unqualified to do that right? You had no background in this area. What was the reaction and where did you start?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. My mom, who was quite shocked that I decided to leave, what she felt like was a very, very safe and predictable, financially stable career. And effectively as she put it, she was like, so you’re going to go run a restaurant? And I was like, no, not really. But she’s like, you’re preparing food to deliver to people. And I was like, yes. I remember the first week telling her what our sales numbers were. I was like, mom, we sold 20 meals. And she said, great. So you’re running a failing restaurant. I was like, Oh. I got to make this work. But I did over time as Thistle grew and she realized the impact that we’re having on people. That it wasn’t just about delivering this product. It wasn’t just about delivering tasty meals. It was the outcomes that our customers were realizing as a result of having access to these products. For her, she’s like, wow, this is amazing. I’m so glad you did this. It makes perfect sense.

Simon Mainwaring:
Right. What I’m hearing from you is something that’s so important for listeners, which is, often we walked straight past what’s right in front of us. In your case, you grew up around a kitchen table in a family environment that was laying out this undeniable need in terms of people’s health. And that was part of your life, the fabric of the conversation around your kitchen table. When you wanted to become an entrepreneur, that’s what showed up. That’s what you’d been listening to. Would you say that’s fair?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
I think that’s absolutely fair. I think as you know, Simon, and I’m sure you’ve spoken to others, starting something requires an incredible amount of energy and resilience. There are so many opportunities where faced with the decision of cutting and running and giving up, the rational part of your brain should say, go do that thing. The only reason you stay with it is because of this emotional connection to the importance of the underlying problem.

Simon Mainwaring:
As you said, we both wanted to do something purposeful as a couple. I get that intuitively. You love each other, you’re newly married, but were you really conscious of being purposeful out of the gate? Were you intentional about it? Did you think about your mission in the first place? Or was it something where you started with the product, but then that purpose evolved over time?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
No. We were very intentional about it because I think again, I love my parents. They provided what I feel like is a foundation of just a good outlook on life. My dad always said, when you get to the end of your life, no one ever says, I wish I made a little bit more money. That’s not what’s going to be important. It’s going to come down to, what impact did you have on something small or large. How did you improve someone else’s life or how did you improve this world for others because it’s tough. They always kind of instilled that notion of try to live your life where you can be proud at the end of the day, at the end of a career at what you built. And as a lawyer, there was no way that I could even identify even a shred of what that could be at the end of that career. I would be remiss not to share my partner Shiri’s background. She’s a PhD in environmental science. She’s far more qualified than I am. She was effectively a climate scientist working at NYU, trying to look at the impact of air pollution on global crop yield and try to craft policies to get countries and governments to make good decisions when it came to improving food scarcity in their countries. In general, the thing she was frustrated was from an environmental science standpoint, people always seem to focus on things like recycling or driving electric cars or regulating the petroleum industry. But the one thing that people weren’t talking about seven, eight years ago, as prevalently as they talk about now is the impact of the demand for animals and animal agriculture on the planet. For her, she found it incredibly odd that all of these people that knew the science, weren’t actually telling people that the single biggest impact an individual can have on the planet, candidly, is to reduce the demand for animals and animal products. Do you remember that the great movie Inconvenient Truth that came out? If you remember at the end of that really great film, there was a list of things that you could do in order to do your part. Nowhere on that list was anything about reducing the demand for meat and animal products. There was a second version of that movie. And nowhere on that same list was reducing the demand for animal agriculture, which is kind of mind boggling.

Simon Mainwaring:
Right. And it’s such an important topic and it was so ahead of his time yet for many, it was just like too much too soon. It was almost seen as a boring topic. Mental note, don’t invite Al Gore to a dinner party.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Exactly, exactly.

Simon Mainwaring:
There’s research now that shows when you take that approach, a fear mongering and really being alarmist about things, you can actually dis-incentivize people. It causes apathy and passivity in people and actually disengage with the issue. So help us understand your mission at Thistle more deeply. What does it literally look like and how is the business structure?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
The mission as we’ve codified it is to help people get and stay healthy while improving the sustainability of our food system via plant-based eating. I think the thing that people miss when they look at us and see a food delivery company is we didn’t do this because we wanted to become restaurateurs or we wanted to become people that provided a great delivery service. The outcome we’re looking for is if we can give people absolutely delicious food, where on an emotional level, you will choose that meal over any other meal, then you don’t actually have to make a rational argument at all because people will make the emotional choice to have that delicious tasty thing. Food is about deliciousness and the emotion and the experience right. Now, if that thing that you provide people is plant-based and it’s healthy and is free of all of the process and artificial ingredients and full of the things that people are typically missing from their lives, then people aren’t sacrificing anything by having that thing. And if they can do that over an extended period of time, not only will they have an improved quality of going forward, you’ve also improved the health of the planet as well. That’s the thing.

Simon Mainwaring:
It’s almost like a Trojan horse. You’ve got to give them a better product in the first place that improves their lives. And then the good it does is actually a byproduct of that. Let me ask you about that because a lot of young purposeful companies and even established ones, they struggle with this. How much do you lean into that rational argument? Talking about, I don’t know, climate change, loss of biodiversity, plastics in the ocean, all those things. Or how much do you lean into the product story, the emotional argument? Do you find you throttle between the two or do you just let the food do the marketing for you?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. That’s a great question. I think we did and what we quickly realize is again, most people understand the rational argument for why they need to make the better choice. The stuff that we were telling people wasn’t call it earth shatteringly new to people. I mean, people knew that. But fundamentally again, especially when it comes to food, it is an absolutely emotional experience. We realized that early on so that we knew that if we were going to win, it couldn’t be because of the rational argument. It had to be because the underlying product was going to be better. I think that’s the really hard thing that we had to figure out from our own business standpoint because not only do we have to create a meal that’s predominantly plants, and it also has to be as, or more delicious than something else that someone can get. And it has to be more convenient for them to access. If you have to check all three of those boxes and you have to do it over and over again, that’s a very, very difficult business to build. But it’s also kind of the satisfying part of if you get it right and you see the outcome, it’s amazing.

Simon Mainwaring:
When you put all the pieces together Ash, I’m going like, wait a second. You’ve got a husband and wife team, which is a challenge in its own right. You’ve got no experience in the category. It’s a super competitive crowded category. You set this crazy high bar for yourself. Tell us about the first few years because you know, every entrepreneur comes out of the gate and they’re anxious to get their first MVP, their first viable product out there and get some sort of market validation. What were those first few years like?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. I think that’s a great question. We had quit our jobs, we’d moved to San Francisco and we were working on this idea. We’d seen both of our salaries go from something that felt like it was very, very sustainable to literally zero. And in fact, we didn’t pay ourselves for almost three years. And in fact, the story that I love to tell people when they ask, Hey, I’m thinking about doing X, Y, and Z from an entrepreneurial standpoint, the number of times that I have to personally write a check into my company in order to make sure that we made payroll.

Simon Mainwaring:
I know what you’re talking about. It is brutal. And you’re like laying in bed late at night, staring at the ceiling thinking, how am I going to get this done? Or more importantly, what have I done? Why did I ever do this?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
That’s right. And the number of times that I’ve managed to convince an outside investor to write me a check that got cashed in order to make that next run of payroll. If you don’t have the stomach to do that, then it’s probably the wrong thing for you to do. It’s completely irrational.

Simon Mainwaring:
That’s why passion is so important. It’s that point you made earlier. If you’re not passionate about the core subject or issue you’re solving for, it won’t be there to sustain you in those tough times.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
That’s right. And exactly. If you look at the probability of success against the outcome, it does not make even financial sense to do it. That means that you’re absolutely right. The only thing that you’re left with is the importance of the underlying problem. Every time you reevaluate, it’s like is the thing that I’m doing still as important today as it was when I started? If the answer is yes and you have the chance to keep going, you should keep going.

Simon Mainwaring:
Yeah. And I think one of the hidden benefits about being a purposeful company and solving for an issue that’s so big is you’re not going to fix it overnight. You’re going to have this long runway that will keep you relevant in a sense. Let me ask you, you raised $10 million in a series to expand the business. So as you started to scale, did you find there was a tension between operations and cost efficiencies and so on and staying true to your mission or purpose? How did you navigate that balance?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. So actually there was a lot more tension in early days because we didn’t have all this experience figuring out how to run an efficient restaurant, which is effectively by and large, what we look like from a P and L standpoint. It’s effectively a delivery based restaurant. Those first few years were very, very costly and painful learning for us. It’s a completely new business model. Shiri and I were doing almost every single function. She was Manning customer support. I was working on the line with our production employees trying to make sure that things were prepared to spec food safe. I was our first delivery driver and in fact for two years, I was in my car at six in the morning delivering meals to customers. The amazing thing is I loved it because if a customer answered the door, it would give me a chance to ask questions about how has your experience? Why did you choose us? Where did you hear about us? What can we be doing better? I’m sure on the other side, customers are like, why is this driver asking me all these questions?

Simon Mainwaring:
Wow. That is a great employee. What was that?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
That’s right.

Simon Mainwaring:
So with Thistle, when did you know you had something viable going? Was there a point where it took on a life of its own and you felt the marketplace rising to meet you? When did you kind of look at your wife and go, I think this is going to work?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
The funny thing is, is that in building a business that is part technology, because a lot of what powers our business is the tech that we’ve built. But by and large, it is a physical operation, but the trend was drifting up. There’s never a point where like, Oh my God, it’s working. But there was a point where like, okay, we’re doing better this week than we did last week and then the week after. If you add that up over the course of five, six years, all of a sudden you’re like, Oh my God, actually we built something pretty big.

Simon Mainwaring:
And what about competitive? The meal delivery business is such a competitive space. How did you carve out a niche for yourself?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
When we were coming up back in 2013, that was the rise of the meal kits. Blue Apron had just raised a boatload of capital. Hello Fresh, a lot of the on-demand meal delivery companies that were in our space that just raised a lot of capital. These highly capitalized companies in our space had effectively preempted our ability to actually go out and raise external capital. But I think what that forced us to do was focus on, and I’m very glad this happened, product quality and unit economics. We actually figured out how to build a good business because we didn’t actually think all of this capital was going to come in, in the early years. What happened for everyone else was they had all this capital, they were told effectively or mandated, don’t worry about anything other than top line revenue. Just go grow the business. We’ll figure out all of the kinds of costs and the margins later. And guess what? At some point, when people realized, Oh my God, you have a lot of revenue, but the economics are terrible. The musical chairs suddenly stopped. And then at that point it was like, when you have a very big ship and now you’re trying to course correct it, it wasn’t going to work.

Simon Mainwaring:
We had Blair Kellison on the podcast before and he’s the CEO of traditional medicinals and he told me something similar. That even though they are a very purposeful company, they consciously took a very operational focus for 10 years and really made sure that the rigor of the business was in place. Talk to us about that. What did you do to make sure that the business in the first place was solid?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. This actually gets back to the purpose as well. All a company is, is effectively a collection of people trying to do a common thing together. Again, it’s not just a P and L and number. It is just people. The one thing that we did really well is we always tried to get people that cared as much about the underlying problem we’re looking to solve. And then if they did that, then that translated into an extraordinary amount of going above and beyond on a day-to-day basis. If something happened where 20% of your meals fell off a truck at two in the morning, that’s the difference between a bunch of people showing up at 2:30 at a kitchen and redoing those meals in order to get it out to a customer.

Simon Mainwaring:
How do you find those people? Because we all know younger demos, Gen Z and millennials, they look at life through a values-based lens. But how do you make sure that when you’re hiring, how do you pre-qualify those right people? Because they’re the gold to the business.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. For myself and Shiri were vegetarian so we already care about living this lifestyle. We care about the importance. And if you can find a few additional signals where if someone’s like, I already eat in this matter and I have for so long, and this is why, you already know that that underlying cause is important to them. If you see someone that is leaving a more traditional job, where they can’t actually make a direct connection and they’re able to authentically tell a story of why this is important, you can very quickly figure out who actually is being very honest about their intentions versus someone that’s trying to say the right thing, purely to get the job.

Simon Mainwaring:
I want to call out something you’re saying and we’ve heard what you’re saying so many times over the years at We First, which is so many business leaders say exactly what you’re saying, which is you can’t teach people to care.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
That’s absolutely right. Look, you can train people to do almost anything, but you cannot train for the actual caring and you cannot train people on curiosity. You cannot train people on enthusiasm. If they can display those traits, you’ll be fine.

Simon Mainwaring:
If you go to Thistle.com And so on, you see that the crux of the issue is this intersection between human health and planetary health. The well-being of the living ecosystems and the human ecosystems. That’s a fairly high concept to communicate to people. Can you explain that a little bit and why it’s so important? And then how does the subscription service like Thistle, how does it play into that?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. I think probably this twin generational set of problems that we’re looking to address. One health of the individual, health of the planet. We found that the solution really is just eating more plants. It’s actually relatively simple. What that means is for someone that was eating, call it a traditional American diet in which a meal will contain eight to 12 ounces of animal protein. If you can convince that person to perhaps not eliminate, but take that eight to 12 down to three ounces, or maybe eat an entirely plant-based lunch, have whatever you want for dinner. If you can make some of those small changes and allow people to do that in an easy way, then over time and over a large number of people, you actually can have a tremendous impact on the planet. And that for us has always been our approach, not have it be completely binary where you have to make a massive change. I think by and large most people want to fundamentally do the right thing but they either don’t know how, or they’re scared of making a big change or they feel like it’s going to be all or nothing. If you can walk people via this journey, wherever they are in that spectrum and help support them no matter where they are in a nonjudgmental approachable way, you’ll find that people are willing to at least take that first step. And with that first step comes the second step, comes the third. And then you show people that not only are you doing this thing for yourself, but you’re doing it for your planet, the whole thing snowballs and all of a sudden, you can’t imagine going back to what you used to do before from a behavior standpoint,

Simon Mainwaring:
That’s such an important and powerful lesson to everyone that wants to lead a purposeful business. Inspiring true behavior change is what every brand has to do today. We need to do it for ourselves, but we also need to do it for all of us because all of our futures are being compromised. You already shared some really important steps like not being judgmental, slowly upgrading, what else would you share in terms of generating authentic long-term behavior change?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. None of it individually is rocket science. Help people really celebrate their wins. What we found is one of the biggest barriers for people trying to make that change is people have indicated no one else around me in my immediate social circle is making that same change with me. I don’t have anyone helping reinforce this behavior that inherently is hard or daunting for me to do. Thistle has to not only be the provider of the service, a provider of the product. They have to somehow find a way to become that replacement for providing that reinforcement, that celebration, all of the things that allow people to continue to go on that hard journey. Whether that’s as a company, for us it’s also connecting our own customers with each other so that you can form your own tribe of people whose sole purpose is to help each other, answer questions, provide a positive encouraging environment. That’s how you generate change in the long term.

Simon Mainwaring:
Sense of community is critical because you’ve got this platform on which your products are sold, but then it’s the community that keeps everyone together and reinforces that new behavior. Help me with this, as far as the storytelling goes, how do you cut through all the noise out there when people think about meal subscription so they think of Thistle first. Especially when so many companies are talking about the same things like the environmental or being more healthy or social impact.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yeah. Again, we’re big believers in grassroots. We try to engage with our own customers as much as possible, whether that is via our Facebook group where we’ve connected our customers. Whether that is through our marketing efforts and candidly, a lot of it is on how much Shiri and I can do to directly be the voice of the company for our consumers as well. Because this notion that we started with authenticity and enthusiasm, I think consumers are very, very smart on trying to figure out is a message delivered authentically or not. Are the leaders of a business living through those values that they’re putting on their website or not. The only way you can do it is by engaging directly with existing and prospective customers. If you’re able to do that well, which again, if you really do believe in your underlying mission, you should be able to, then you’ll see that flow in and it’ll help you grow your company, get new customers and ultimately long-term build a more durable business.

Simon Mainwaring:
Everything we’ve talked about up till now has been about upwards into the right, the good stuff in the entrepreneurial category. But if you look back now Ash and you’re sitting around the kitchen table, was there ever a moment where your wife looked at you and said, Ash, I can’t believe you did that? What’s the most sobering lesson you’ve learned along the way? It might be 10 lessons along the way. Whatever comes to mind.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Man. I struggle to think of a single example. A lot of call it the bad decisions or call it things that Shiri would say, because she is definitely the more sober of the two of us was, how quickly or aggressively perhaps we might have launched new products or saying yes to a consumer ask. One of the things that we had early days for our customers was you tell us if you had an allergy to a specific ingredient or a like or dislike to a specific ingredient, and we’ll accommodate everything. Early days people would say I don’t like onions and eggplant and cilantro and this massive list. I remember at one point there were something like 30% of our customers had all of these crazy requests when it came to their specific preferences. It made things an operational nightmare. By the way, if you’re setting the expectation that you’re going to honor those requests, there’s nothing worse than actually failing at that. It actually is far worse than setting the expectation that you weren’t actually going to be able to accommodate that at all. I think this notion of trying to overextend for a customer in all cases, that was a sobering lesson early on.

Simon Mainwaring:
I totally get it. Especially in the beginning when you’re like, somebody likes us, let’s give them everything they want. Ash, thank you so much for the insights and also congratulations to you and Shiri on the success. Where do people go to find out more about Thistle?

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Yep. So they can go to our website, www.Thistle.co. That’s a great place for customers to learn more about us, what we stand for, the products that we offer. We’re currently available to consumers that are located on the West coast. We do local delivery in the Bay area, greater Los Angeles, San Diego, Sacramento, Seattle, Portland. We ship to the greater West coast. And at some point later this year, hopefully we’re launching on the East coast as well.

Simon Mainwaring:
Great. Thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure, Ash.

Ashwin Cheriyan:
Of course. Thank you so much, Simon. It’s a pleasure.

Simon Mainwaring:
Thanks for joining us for this week’s episode of Lead With We, where I spoke with Ashwin Cheriyan, co-founder and CEO of Thistle, who shared with us how to go from the spark of an idea to a thriving, purposeful business in a competitive category, and how to inspire your customers to become passionate advocates that build your business with you. Our show is produced by Goal 17 media, and you can always find more information about our guests in the show notes of each episode. If you’d like to learn more about purposeful branding, check out, wefirstbranding.com, where we have lots of free resources and case studies. Make sure you subscribe to Lead With We on Apple, Google, or Spotify, and do share it with your friends and colleagues so they too can build purposeful and profitable businesses. Also, starting next week, you’ll be able to watch episodes of Lead With We on YouTube at We First TV. I’ll see you on the next episode and until then let’s all ‘lead with we’.