Carina Cortez:
Thank you so much, Simon. I’m really excited to be here today with you and

Simon Mainwaring:
I am so excited to talk to greener because if, as I go about what I do, we first and, you know, sharing the lead with we thinking, I talked to lots of CEOs, lots of companies. And the first thing they bring up is how to find the talent they need. How do we engage those employees to get the most out of them, how to keep those employees and how to sort of minimize churn and all the issues that go with building and growing a company. So it’s really, really top of mind. Why do you think it’s just really risen to the forefront? Why is it popped in this.

Carina Cortez:
certainly, I think that the last couple of years, more than ever has just amplified the need to really focus on employees, transparency, engagement, and culture in the workplace. , I have a 20 plus year career history in human resources, and I would just say the past two years has really just accelerated and amplified the new. Now more than ever , to focus in on these aspects of the employee life cycle at an organism.

Simon Mainwaring:
And I, and I know, you know, you’ve had a long career in HR and so on, and so you’ve seen it evolve, but in your opinion, would you say it’s fair that things were unbalanced before and there was skewed towards the employer over the employee and a lot of the shake out over the last couple of days was long overdue, or do you feel like it’s a little bit unbalanced.

Carina Cortez:
So, what I think is are long gone are the days that there is the loyalty to accompany. , what we see now, generally speaking, is most people are staying at a company for probably about three years or so. , I can speak to that. It’s about the case that we have here at Glassdoor currently. And in addition, , it’s been called a lot of different things, but, , I I’ve kind of, , hung on to the term of the great job hop that’s happening right now as well. I think that with the past couple of years in this setting, that. Most people were working remotely working from home. This hybrid work environment, it’s just really changed. What’s important to employees in a focus that we need to really be listening to them now more than ever, , as to what is important to them from a company culture.

Simon Mainwaring:
In my mind, I sort of think it’s a bit of a technology has enabled that. The possible to do that effectively before. So that was a permission slip. But I think, , the last couple of years when we’re talking about COVID here, especially it did make everyone sit back and say, what am I doing with my life? And what do I prioritize in terms of family? What the shape of my life looks like. And what is the role of work within that? Do you think this is a permanent reset? Is this a sort of watershed moment that no one saw.

Carina Cortez:
So I think that people’s values are becoming more and more critical to what’s important to them , in the work environment, finding a company that’s really aligned to their values, whether that’s about, um, what they’re doing as it relates to any social issues that are happening, , from an environmental perspective. just making sure that companies are really. In line with their own personal values and beliefs. And there’s a lot more forums for people to provide employees to provide that feedback. Obviously, glass door is a place where people can write a review. , in fact, what we find is people look at about five reviews before they joined a company, at least, , when the, when they’re considering their next job opportunity, they’re also leverage. Things like fishbowl, which is a part of Glassdoor as well, which is a platform where people can speak freely about what’s happening. Have a conversation, ask the hard question and get a good answer back for it. And so, , with that full transparency, which I think is absolutely the right place to be, there’s just a lot more freedom in terms of what people have available to them before considering a move or to join an ex. [00:07:06]

Simon Mainwaring:
And the transparency piece is huge, as you say, and fishbowl allows you to convene your employees and have those hard discussions, or just be open with each other, but with the privacy of the company and so on, do you think it serves employees to jump around as much as they are now? [00:07:23] Or do you think that it’s the sort of like the pendulum is swung one way and it’s going to swing back the other way, because, , I see just as many stories out there where people are talking about, well, , they jumped ship for a little bit more money or just for a change, because I wasn’t happy at that moment in time. [00:07:37] And then, , they regret it and want to come back. I mean, where do you see that pendulum? [00:07:41]

Carina Cortez:
So one of the great things about glass doors, our mission, which is to help people everywhere, find a job and company that they love. And I think people should be , where they feel loved, , with the company and with the role itself. And one of the personal things that I take to heart is can I give the person the best career experience while they’re here at Glassdoor? [00:07:58] , what can I do for them from a career development perspective? Do they have access to senior leadership? So in the event that someone does leave and say, Hey, I actually. , think I made a wrong decision or I’ve got an experience and I want to come back. Can I get them back as a boomerang employee? And so personally that’s the mindset that I’ve taken. [00:08:15] And I think we should really be focusing on giving that best experience to people with the culture that they love at the company they’re out at the time, so that they talk about how great the company is after they left. And so to answer your question more specifically, I don’t know that it’s actually going to stop. [00:08:30] I think there’s a lot more freedom now. , people. These different sites available to them , to take a look at jobs and opportunities. And what’s the culture really like? , I think people want to experiment and figure out what’s right for them. , as their career progresses and, you know, speaking for myself, what was right for me when I was 21 years old and just out of college is very different to who I am now as a 40 something year old mother of teens, and who’s looking towards retirement, you know? [00:08:55] So I think, I think it’s, , a fair statement to say, people are going to look for different things at different parts of their careers. [00:09:00]

Simon Mainwaring:
before we dive into the question of how a company leverages a platform like last door, Help me answer one question. [00:09:07] So many of the CEOs and the leadership folks that I’ve spoken to her, like, it’s so hard to find the people we need, whether it’s, , line workers in a factory or whether it’s in restaurants or, , in the corporate world, they just can’t seem to find them. And so where did they go? Can you help us understand like where reasonable. [00:09:24]

Carina Cortez:
Sure. Well, I think part of that is that really taking a hard look at your employee value proposition. And that’s something that we’ve done here at Glassdoor is we wanted to make sure that we could get the right people for the right job at the right time and doing a really hard look at. Considering what we’re going to give people for what they’re giving to us and likewise, what we’re not going to give them as well. [00:09:47] And being very clear and deliberate about that. , oftentimes I find there can be a mismatch in that. What what’s causes people. You say one thing, I think it’s that old story of, , you go out and you, it looks like you’re on the golf course. And when you joined the company, it’s this bare bare room that you’re walking into. [00:10:02] , and just being very clear about the given get in terms of what the company has to offer. And so with that said, Being deliberate about that, making sure your cultures are there, that your value is there, that your transparency is there. That’s what people are really looking for. And so can you take stock of that for your own organization to make it very, very clear what people are going to get and not get as they join your company? [00:10:26]

Simon Mainwaring:
No, that makes sense, because I think a lot of folks, depending on what industry you’re in or what sort of role you play, sometimes it feels like it has been unfair. You didn’t know what you were getting into, you didn’t see the transparency. And so they’re making a much more informed decision now as employers. [00:10:39] So let’s talk about Glassdoor as a platform. , we first and every company I know, , uses it. I mean, what is the purpose of the organization and what distinguishes you from other platforms? And I know you pointed to this with transparency, but like what’s the purpose of. [00:10:54]

Carina Cortez:
Yeah. So again, we, we really want to make sure that people are able to find a job and company that they love. [00:11:01] Just built on our, the reason we came to life, , the glass door is transparent, right? And so radical transparency has always been at the heart of what this company stood for. And what we found is previously before glass door was around, is that you had what the company was telling you about their company available to you, but you never really got a good look as the person going into the company, the job seeker and potential employer. [00:11:26] What was it really like from people who are actually at the company. And so when Glassdoor first came on the scene, it was very disruptive. , you had people leaving these reviews, perhaps it was things you did or did not want to hear about as the employer, but at the same time, it gave you the opportunity to say, Hey, if, as an employer, if this is what employees are telling me, I can actually do something about it. [00:11:46]as a job. Is this in line with what I want to do is this where I want to be with the feedback that I’m hearing. And I would tell you that most of the reviews are actually very positive on glass door and give people a true insight into that. And now, today, I think the next disruption is fishbowl, which we’ve touched on very briefly, which is a platform where people can engage in a conversation. [00:12:07] , and so you have your bowls, if you will. So for instance, there’s a glass doorbell itself where we can engage with only Glassdoor employees on that. But there’s other areas. For instance, I’m in human resources, bull I’m in a women in executive leadership roles, bull I’m in a women in tech bowl [00:12:22] where I can go to ask questions that are top of mind for me. [00:12:25] , Hey, I’ve experienced this issue in my workplace. What do you say? How do I deal with this? Or, Hey, I just had this great idea. What do you all think about it? And you get just a lot of different insights than you would otherwise. And so again, just transparency with both Glassdoor and fishbowl has been amazing at opening up different avenues to employees and employers alike, , job seekers as well in terms of being very clear and, and getting that transparent information. [00:12:50]

Simon Mainwaring:
And so I ha so help me if I’m a founder of a startup or I’m a leader in some large corporation, one of the challenges you experienced today is it seems like we’ve gotta be able to speak to every issue out there, whether it’s gun control, same-sex marriage, you know, you’re right to love who you choose. [00:13:05] And so. And for a long time, that was outside sort of ability of business. And especially when this tragedy is the goal of so many different kinds around, , race and other things like that, , does every employee need to be able to speak to these things? And where does that threshold sort of end, We’re all a little scared to be [00:13:23] quite honest, you know? [00:13:25] So give us a sense of how to get the balance, right? [00:13:27]

Carina Cortez:
Yeah. [00:13:27] And we’ve, grappled with that here at Glassdoor, , within our executive ranks and, and beyond, just in terms of, unfortunately, over the past two years in particular, so many different things have occurred, starting with obviously most top of mind for folks is the pandemic. [00:13:42] Civil unrest and social injustices, , to unfortunately the recent events that have happened with the shootings, , recently in the United [00:13:49] States. And, could you actually respond to everything? , I think what needs to happen and what we’ve done here at Glassdoor is to say , where are the opportunities for us to respond? [00:13:59] That makes sense, related to our own organization, what’s important to our employees. And this is where transparency comes into play. If, you know, what’s on your employee, mind, you know, where those opportunities are for you to respond. We’ve talked about, there are certain issues from a governance standpoint or political standpoint that we will or will not respond to. [00:14:18] And I think it’s just having that conversation that’s related to what’s on your employees minds as well, to ensure you are responding to everything. , to be Frank, I think. [00:14:26] , respond to every single situation that occurs would be nearly impossible because so much happens on a day-to-day basis. [00:14:32] But to get very clear about what’s important to your company, your purpose, your mission, your vision, [00:14:36] your values, , leveraging things like Glassdoor and fishbowl can be helpful to understand what’s top of mind for your employees so that, you know, when and where you should step in on these types of. [00:14:45]

Simon Mainwaring:
I want to dig into this a bit because it’s, as I said, when we started talking, it’s almost like culture and employee engagement is top of mind. Now all the issues out there. What drives, what does accompany sit there and go? This is our purpose, our mission, our values, and here’s the issues we’ll speak to. [00:15:00] And we preemptively define those and our point of view on it, or does a company respond to whatever issues they, that employees may bring up through a tool like fishbowl and you’ve gotta be ready for anything, or is it somewhere in between? [00:15:16]

Carina Cortez:
, I would say that it’s, it’s almost like a conversation. , you’ve gotta treat it as both. And the other thing is that employees are looking at. Well, the actions that you take versus just what you say. So what’s that say, do ratio, if you will. So we say these things are what’s important to us, whether it might be our values, our mission, , radical transparency. [00:15:36] Do you actually live that internally? And so your [00:15:38] employees are looking for you to walk [00:15:40] that talk. , so that’s what I mean when I say that, say, do ratio. [00:15:43] And so I think that there is an element of employees are listening to you as executive leaders in the organization. What are you saying? But then how. [00:15:51] Bonding are you actually matching those things together? [00:15:54] And likewise, [00:15:55] you need to listen as executives to your employees to understand how is it actually impacting them. , even though we’re saying we’re doing these things, is that the impact it’s having on the individual and making sure that you’re actually meeting those things together, that there is a melding of employees are actually feeling what we think we’re saying we’re doing. [00:16:13] And if not, it’s time to take that stock and revisit. And maybe you look at how, how you do things [00:16:18] differently. [00:16:18] Moving. [00:16:19]

Simon Mainwaring:
Yeah, you have to be so sort of present to culture now. And I feel like in the past, you know, the presumption was for employees that you’re lucky to have a job. Here’s what you’re getting paid. [00:16:28] The culture is what it is, and it’s really about marketing and moving product and profit at the end of the day. But it seems increasingly now it’s your ability to even operate as a company is how well you can attract the talent you need, keep them happy and so on. So create a, what would you say, like if you were to give us three or four major trends that you’re seeing in terms of how the most effective employees are responding, , to make sure that they navigate all of these issues that are coming their way on a daily basis, what are some of the trends that have emerged out of the last couple of years that you think are useful for everyone moving forward? [00:17:01]

Carina Cortez:
certainly, I think, , as it relates to culture and making sure your employees are feeling connected to your company, , what we see through our Glassdoor research are a few things. , one is the accessibility and the openness of your senior leadership. [00:17:14] , are they there to listen to their employees? [00:17:16] Are they sharing things transparently, , with their employees across the organization? , as our CEO likes to say, you know, people tend to do things in dark corners, not in broad daylight. And so is there an opportunity for you to shine a light on the things that are happening? And so people are really looking to senior leadership. [00:17:31] So again, are you walking that talk, , are you making sure that you’re living your values? Um, Behaviors, et cetera. I think another area employers need to focus in on, because employees are telling us this is career development. , what are you giving employees to keep them engaged in the organization? [00:17:47] , as they’re looking at, you know, having a best career of their life, are [00:17:50] you [00:17:50] able to [00:17:51] provide that to them? [00:17:52] how are you helping them with. [00:17:53] And I, I jokingly say, so I’ll belabor this point just a little bit is I would love for people to poach Glassdoor employees, which may sound absolutely ridiculous as a head of [00:18:04]

Simon Mainwaring:
Glenn store employees, fair game, and everybody. [00:18:08]

Carina Cortez:
So, but what I mean by that is can we give them the best career development experience of their life, whether it’s through a formal training program. [00:18:17] The problem that they’re going to solve, , the projects that they’re working on or the impact that they’re able to make into the world or the, the organization itself that they’re going to take that with them no matter where they go, because again, longer those days gone where people are staying at a company for 20 years, but can I give them that experience so that they’re such a good brand ambassador and then they’ll, they’ll boomerang back. [00:18:36] Another. That employees are really looking towards nowadays too, is what are you doing related to D and I, or corporate social responsibility. That’s becoming more and more important to make sure that you’re connected to that as well. So again, this goes back to the [00:18:51] say, do ratio. [00:18:53] If you say these things, are you actually doing something about it? [00:18:55] , so for instance, we, published our first, uh, DEI transparency report a couple of years ago, and we had some very lofty goals. And we said the actions that we were going to take to make [00:19:04] sure that we achieve those, we followed [00:19:06] up, , last year with that report as well. And to show the progress that we made in certain areas, and then some tweaks that we were making moving forward. [00:19:13] And then we’ll publish that again this year. And so again, you have to be consistent in that. , you can’t just declare something and walk away from that. , another thing I like to say is hope is not a strategy. [00:19:22] You have to have a clear plan around these things and be very committed to making them happen. [00:19:26] So I would say in short, senior leadership, the career development, and then a focus on DEI and our corporate sponsor, corporate social responsible. [00:19:35]

Simon Mainwaring:
, it’s a lot, even as a business item myself, it feels like, oh my gosh, I’ve got so many things on my plate already. [00:19:41] And now there’s all of those different dimensions. It’s undeniable. , there’s nothing you can do. That’s kind of the price of entry. If you want to have a, a company that is, can survive today, help me understand. , one of them a little bit more, which is you want to empower employees to have impact that’s meaningful to them. [00:19:57] And I think one of the tensions, especially around purposeful companies is we got to, we’ve got to have a business. We’ve got to move product to make money at the same time. We want to make a difference out there in the world. So when it comes to the employee themselves, is it about giving them volunteer opportunities or donation matching or R and D or innovation kind of opportunities that allow you to have greater impact, or is it know how do you balance, the level you lean into supporting their impact, work with just getting your job done and moving. [00:20:28]

Carina Cortez:
certainly. And I think it just comes back to being able to listen to what your employees need and want. And so for instance, at Glassdoor, we do offer a volunteer time off. That’s very important as to make an impact to the communities that we serve. And so we allow. Please, , up to three days off per year to go and volunteer for an organization of their choice. [00:20:47] , in addition, we have employee resource groups and they have a community aspect to that as well. And we make sure that’s connected to the mission of Glassdoor, , which is to help people find a jobs and company they love. So some of our employee resource groups have volunteered for instance, our gain, which is our agent. [00:21:05] Employee resource group, they do something to help with reviewing scholarships, , for people who are trying to get into certain programs, because that helps to get them into the workforce. Likewise, with glass doors, black ERG, they do something similar with girls who code. And they’re trying to make sure that there is an impact that they’re making to that community is. [00:21:24] so to maybe to put it a different way is if you’re not going to offer that to your employees, they’re going to find somewhere else that does do that because it is important to them. So listening to what’s important to your employee base is going to be the most critical versus just trying to copy what another organization is doing, because it’s not going to make sense for your employee population. [00:21:42]

Simon Mainwaring:
Totally get it. And I want to get even one more kind of wrinkle in there, which is not all employees are the same. And some companies that I speak to you’ve got the more. Activist employee. And then you’ve got those who are like, oh my gosh, you know, there’s other employees have to work in inverted commas or the company is to work well, that’s not why I’m here. [00:22:02] When you’ve got an inherent tension inside an organization where, , there’s a mixed motives within the employee base, which is very normal to be expected, especially if you’ve got thousands or tens of thousands of employees, how do you resolve that internally? [00:22:16]

Carina Cortez:
So I think that’s where this see the future of work going is more towards the human centered design or employee centered design. And look, this isn’t to say that you’re going to design around every single person in your organization, but rather where is their choice? And I know as human beings, we value choice, what are the options that are available to us. [00:22:36] So again, to go back to the example I provided about volunteering. You can do that or you [00:22:40] don’t have to, , and you don’t have to tell us what you’re volunteering for either. So whether that might be, you know, for me as a, as a working parent, I might want to go volunteer on my, Field trip for a day, and I’m going to use that as a volunteer [00:22:52] day off, or maybe I want I’m really into gardening and I want to go help plants and vegetables for, , a homeless shelter in [00:22:59] my area. [00:23:00] I’m going to do that. And so it’s just again, offering the optionality to the employees, and ensuring that they have the opportunity to take advantage of that, even though it may not be something that applies to each and every individual person. [00:23:13]

Simon Mainwaring:
right? So they self select how they want to get involved and so on. [00:23:17] And I mean, we keep talking about the employees because I think it almost demonstrates how the center of gravity has moved to the interest of the employees. For the reasons we set up the tub. Health and wellness holistically and especially mental health and wellness is huge. I got to put my hand up and say the last two or three years has been so damn challenging. [00:23:34] The fear, anxiety, stress that I felt as a business owner, as a father, as a friend for loved ones, myself, it’s really, really hard. And I don’t think I personally, I think any of us have had time to process that properly and grieve or move on or integrate or whatever the right term is. So before we talk to effective health and wellness management from your lens, as somebody who really has so much experience in this area, how would you characterize where everybody is? [00:24:05] Because every day we look at our phones is another scary headline that just kind of gets us adrenaline, you know, is it more demanding than ever? , and where are we right. [00:24:15]

Carina Cortez:
Yeah, [00:24:15] I can speak to it to where I am and where Glassdoor is. I mean, unfortunately we got. Several tragedies through shootings over the past couple of weeks here in the United States. And I think this one that just occurred in Texas, , was very, very challenging for many. , it was in an underrepresented group, a largely Latinex community. [00:24:34] , it involved many children, very young ages. , some teachers were impacted by this obviously as well, and it impacted their friends and family and. You can’t help, but see yourself or someone, you know, in these situations. And what I think is that empathy is really, really important in these situations and not expecting people just to be able [00:24:53] to carry on as normal. are you able to offer some resources to your, , employees through employee resources? [00:25:00] Just giving them the time off to take care of things. , without question, , providing some resources to them, of networking for just someone to have a shoulder to lean on. Are your managers equipped just to say, Hey, take the day off. [00:25:14] , I think there are some things that, that we’ve done here at Glassdoor to, to help through these types of situations. And, , I think that’s what our employees are expecting from us, for sure. , but do you have that network internally for you, for your employees to, to grasp onto and be able to take advantage of as well and just being very [00:25:31] empathetic to their needs? [00:25:33]

Simon Mainwaring:
so how do we approach this Corrina? Is it formalizing protocols internally, which can be applied to any tragic situation or is it just being adaptive and responsive in the moment? [00:25:45]

Carina Cortez:
so I think the answer to that is it’s a little bit of both. , I can personally say over the past couple of years, with everything that we’ve experienced, there’s no playbook for a lot of these things and we’re having to be able to adapt and to change to that. [00:25:58] As we move along. , having said that, unfortunately, because of the volume of events and circumstances that have occurred, I think that, you know, I can say here at Glassdoor, we do have a little bit of a, a rubric or a decision-making framework that we go through to identify what we can and should do what we have the ability to respond to in certain moments. [00:26:18] , and so I think that there is more and more of a playbook getting created as time goes on. But no situation is like the other. And so you do need to have that flexibility to be unique, to be responsive to the [00:26:29] needs at that moment. [00:26:30]

Simon Mainwaring:
And do you see companies showing up that way? Do you see them sort of getting a handle on this new expectation of them? [00:26:36] Are they actually sort of responding in real time to these tragedies? [00:26:39]

Carina Cortez:
I think that there’s a mixed bag on that. Like there is with anything else and, you know, I think the worst thing you could do, , is to be performative in these types of situations. And that’s where a lot of the feedback has come into play of, you know, [00:26:51] you mentioned [00:26:52] Georgia. [00:26:53] When that happened and people organizations put like the black square up for the day on the social media, but then nothing happened after that. [00:27:00] , what action are you actually taking? So I think it goes back to, again, what I said about that say, do ratio. [00:27:05] We’re indicating we’re doing these things, but are you actually doing something your employees are going to hold you accountable to that. So make sure that you are taking the action with [00:27:12] anything you’re saying you’re good. [00:27:14]

Simon Mainwaring:
and discussed, or, , when it supports companies and it provides this platform with transparency, does it provide services or guidance for, to help companies navigate all of these things? [00:27:24]

Carina Cortez:
absolutely. We have a great data and insights team, and we publish a lot of information about what we’re seeing. We do a lot of surveys of individuals. We, we publish best practices. And so you can take a look on Glassdoor at various blog posts that we have. We have our economic research team that provides a lot of information as well. [00:27:42] And it’s all. For free. So you can go and access that to see what are other companies doing. , what’s worked for them, but again, I guess my caution would be, make sure it meets the needs of your organization. So just because someone else is doing it, make sure it’s right for your organization. And what’s what your employees are telling [00:27:57] you that [00:27:57] they [00:27:57] want. [00:27:58] Want [00:27:58] to [00:27:58] see. [00:27:59]

Simon Mainwaring:
Yeah, I mean, it just has to be authentic. I mean, it’s just so self evident, but it just bears repeating, , it’s easy for this to sound negative and as much as the, the employer has to help employees navigate these difficult situations, but have there been a lot of positives that have come out of this sort of rebalancing this calibration towards the interest in health and wellbeing of the employee. [00:28:17] And are you seeing companies becoming more. Resilient more sticky, more productive, more positive. Are you seeing an uptick from this sort of shift? [00:28:27]

Carina Cortez:
I think what we’ve, we’ve noticed throughout this is the impact of community and how important that is. And you’re seeing people relying on each other more than usual. , I can say, you know, here at Glassdoor, what we’ve experienced, we’ve done these things [00:28:39] called connection [00:28:40] circles, which have just been invaluable in that. [00:28:43] Experience for people going through something, , to have a group of about eight to 10 employees come together, talk about what’s top of mind. And now you’ve created this small network [00:28:53] of individuals [00:28:54] who might be in a variety of different locations. And so [00:28:57] it’s really, [00:28:58] in some ways, made people more connected than they would have been if it was only in the. [00:29:02] Environment [00:29:03] for instance, [00:29:04] , and you have this group then that you can, can talk about things over time. I think we’re seeing more and more of a focus on mental wellbeing and the need for better mental health resources, , which you’ve mentioned, but it’s very, very near [00:29:15] and [00:29:15] dear to [00:29:15] my [00:29:15] heart. [00:29:17] It’s kind of put a light on that in, in companies do need to provide those types of resourcing to their employees in order for them to have a holistic view of [00:29:25] their entire [00:29:25] health. [00:29:26] , and so, , in that regard, if there is a silver lining to this, I think some of these things have [00:29:32] been really valuable and positive. [00:29:34]

Simon Mainwaring:
Yeah. I think the whole human being is finally being seen for the first time. And I know that you’ve shared, , mental health challenges and struggles that you’ve had. [00:29:42] Like, what are we what’s expected of us as leaders inside a company now, because everything we do is a permission slip for everyone inside the organization in terms of how they show up, how they can be seen. And ultimately that affects how happy they are, how long they stay, how well they work and so on. [00:29:56] So if you’re a founder, a CEO, someone who’s leading a company or to. What’s expected of us, [00:30:03]

Carina Cortez:
certainly, and again, to speak to my own experience, I had to get to a place where I felt comfortable sharing my own [00:30:09] mental health [00:30:09] story [00:30:10] and journey, [00:30:11] and [00:30:11] I felt that it was really important [00:30:13] to share [00:30:13] that more broadly. then even just to my glass door employees. From the perspective of this is a real issue. [00:30:21] It impacts people that, you know, and we need [00:30:24] to do [00:30:24] better, with our healthcare services that we’re providing with benefits that we’re providing to make sure that , we’re giving a whole holistic view of health in the United States in particular, but globally as well. , [00:30:36] and [00:30:36] having the. Ability to [00:30:39] be vulnerable [00:30:40] and share. [00:30:40] That is the only way that we’re going to make change. , I would tell you when I shared my article, , [00:30:45] a [00:30:45] couple [00:30:46] of years [00:30:46] ago, People have, in fact, if this week someone was mentioning to me that it helped them to have a conversation with their spouse about needing to get mental [00:30:54] health care. [00:30:55] , and so to see that I’ve impacted, you know, one person’s life, , people in my neighborhood had seen the article as well and just shared with me, like I had no idea or going through that. And I just think. People to pause and understand there’s more than what meets the eye and you’re not actually seeing the whole individual. [00:31:12] And so back to the conversation [00:31:13] we’re having about [00:31:13] community [00:31:15] being a little bit more compassionate and empathetic to people again, if, if that helped in some way, shape or form by me sharing my story, [00:31:21] , [00:31:21] that [00:31:21] means the world [00:31:22] to me. [00:31:23]

Simon Mainwaring:
it does. I mean, you know, I was just having a conversation, my wife last night, it just in terms of how we’ve got to commit time to quiet and stillness and time in nature, and really actively manage our mental health in the context of so many sort of things that kind of what we read about every day that could bring you down and so on. [00:31:41] Yeah, I think it’s a positive, everyone’s working up to the fact that it’s okay to not be okay and more people than, you know, a feeling that way. And that’s actually, it has a place in the workplace. I mean, an extension of all of this is really where you work from. I mean, we’ve all like, remember at the beginning of 2020 and you know, March and it’s like, oh my God, we’ve all got to go home. [00:32:03] We’ve got to wear masks. And it felt like this was six weeks at the time or whatever it’s going to be. And here we are now, we’ve all been sort of hybrid or remote for so long. I know glass door has its work from anywhere policy. Can you tell me how that came about? Why and what insights drove you to decide what going to the office looks like? [00:32:23]

Carina Cortez:
certainly yes, I, I can relive the day very well when we decided we were sending [00:32:28] all gloss store employees [00:32:29] home to work from home. , I think very nicely now, to your point, I thought it was going to be maybe three weeks and [00:32:35] this thing was going to [00:32:35] go [00:32:36] away [00:32:36] and we’d [00:32:36] be [00:32:37] back [00:32:37] in [00:32:37] the [00:32:37] office, you know? No worries whatsoever. [00:32:40] , clearly [00:32:40] that, that was not the case. And so. , what we were able to see throughout this is in fact employees could work wherever they wanted, and we did not experience a loss to our productivity. , we actually found that we were just as productive before, [00:32:53] and I think that [00:32:54] was the [00:32:54] big concern for [00:32:55] many organizations and [00:32:56] certainly Glassdoor [00:32:57] as well as well. [00:32:58] Could you really have a customer service agent who’s working remotely a hundred percent of the time and no one’s together in a room. And how could you [00:33:05] you get something [00:33:05] done? , how are you [00:33:07] going to [00:33:07] have [00:33:07] collaboration? And gosh, you know, if people weren’t gritty and [00:33:10] resilient and figure [00:33:11] this out, it’s really changed the way that, that the workforce is constructed. [00:33:15] And so with glass door in the summer of 2020, actually, , we came out with our work where you want policy, , because people were then mobile as well. Um, maybe, you know, we had people who were wanting to live with their parents because they wanted to take care of them or go to try and live some somewhere else because they have this opportunity now because they didn’t need to be in the office. [00:33:34] And so it was really important for. [00:33:36] To put a program or policy around this so that we could share with employees, Hey, it is work where you want. And that’s what, this is what that means [00:33:42] for glass [00:33:43] door. , even now with our offices reopening, we recently started reopening our offices in April of this year. [00:33:49] It’s an option for people to go into the office. So for instance, someone like me, I like a little bit of a break from my home office and to have a place to travel to. I love to use my commute time, to listen to a podcast or just [00:34:01] kind of [00:34:01] ease back from, you know, [00:34:03] home to [00:34:03] work [00:34:03] or work [00:34:03] to. [00:34:05] Depending on the situation and allowing individuals that optionality, , we talked about choice before, it’s critical and, and again, right. [00:34:12] For our workforce in terms of what they needed. And so it’s been [00:34:15] a very [00:34:15] successful policy for us to allow and empower people, to be able to [00:34:19] work whenever they want wherever they want. [00:34:21]

Simon Mainwaring:
Yeah. I, I agree because , I’ve been working from home for a couple of days, like everybody else and everyone at the company has, but you feel like your circle of your life has shrunk. [00:34:29] It’s contracted, it’s got less dimensional and you do like that change. And also in my opinion, I think is a little bit more challenging to have a sticky organization. If you don’t have that physical FaceTime where you actually get to relate to, or to relate with each other and the research that you’ve done, , cause one of the most popular conversations, whenever you meet a business owner or an executive, is, are you in the office yet? [00:34:52] What are the big tech companies doing? When are we going back? Are they back? Have you responded to it? Oh, no. Whatever it might be. What, what does the insights, the research tell you about the trends moving from. [00:35:03]

Carina Cortez:
Yeah. Well, what we’ve seen is, that the research was showing us about 45% of people wanted to be in a hybrid fashion, , meaning that they wanted the option to work remotely, or they wanted the option to work in the. [00:35:14] And [00:35:15] what we’ve seen here at Glassdoor specifically is that’s actually been more about 10% of people coming in into [00:35:20] the office. [00:35:20] , and so more people are wanting to work from home or have the luxury of working from home, or I think another thing it might be telling us as well. There’s still some of these variants out there, or right now, , as [00:35:32] of today you’ll have a little bit more of the spikes and so people are a little bit more hesitant to convene in, in some larger settings. [00:35:39] , but to have the option I think is, is really important. , unfortunately we’ve seen other organizations that have mandated people go into the office [00:35:47] and then [00:35:47] they’re pulling back on that. [00:35:49] , [00:35:49] and changing that [00:35:49] policy. [00:35:51]

Simon Mainwaring:
like mandating hasn’t worked out is it, [00:35:53]

Carina Cortez:
We [00:35:53] have seen [00:35:54] that, , and, , Recently we’ve seen apple actually do that very visibly. [00:35:58] They had a key executive that had left [00:35:59] the organization. [00:36:01] And [00:36:01] then [00:36:01] after that happened, they did pull back on the mandatory days in the office. But again, I would say it needs to be what’s right for your organization. And what’s specific to your employees because I know that there, , we were talking about, [00:36:12] , [00:36:12] truck drivers or, , waitress. [00:36:16] Obviously [00:36:16] there’s some, some [00:36:17] jobs [00:36:17] that [00:36:17] just [00:36:17] don’t [00:36:17] lend [00:36:18] itself [00:36:18] to [00:36:18] that. [00:36:19] But again, if your employees are asking for that and you are able to provide for it, listen to what they’re [00:36:24] saying and [00:36:24] try [00:36:25] to meet their needs as best. [00:36:27]

Simon Mainwaring:
So if we would have to triangulate all of these different issues that blast, or is enabling us to do, which is to, just manage outright with greater transparency, the hiring process and so on. [00:36:38] And then like with tools like fishbowl sort of convenience. really important and sensitive discussion groups around timely topics. And then, you know, the hybrid workplace in and remote and in the office and so on. So give us a sense of, from your line of sight, because you’ve got this unique point of view. [00:36:57] What does the future of work look like? Not to put you on the spot, small question. Right. But what, [00:37:00]

Carina Cortez:
Small question. Yeah. [00:37:02]

Simon Mainwaring:
look like? What is the calibration of all of these different elements? [00:37:05]

Carina Cortez:
Yeah, I think this is one of those things. We’re going to be writing the playbook as [00:37:09] we go. [00:37:09] , [00:37:09] we [00:37:09] actually have [00:37:10] a future [00:37:10] of [00:37:11] work, work stream [00:37:12] that, [00:37:12] that we have here at, at Glassdoor. [00:37:15] And [00:37:15] what [00:37:15] we’re really thinking through here is what’s important in, in terms of having touch points for individuals to meet in person when they want to. [00:37:23] And one of the decision points that we made is if anything. Truly business-related, [00:37:27] we must [00:37:28] have both [00:37:29] and you [00:37:29] want to do something in person. You must have a virtual component for that as well, and make it meaningful for [00:37:34] the employees that [00:37:35] either cannot or just don’t want to join [00:37:38] in [00:37:39] a physical [00:37:39] setting, [00:37:39] especially at [00:37:40] this time. [00:37:41] , whereas with social events, we have a different criteria of you don’t [00:37:44] have to [00:37:45] have that virtual component, [00:37:46] for instance, [00:37:47] , are there events where you want people to be able to. To come into the office for instance, last month was our fiscal year kickoff here at Glassdoor. And so we had all of our offices able to be open. [00:37:59] We had executives at each of our office locations. We did [00:38:02] our fiscal year [00:38:02] kickoff. , that was an event for people to come into. And then we had follow on, uh, things such [00:38:07] as smaller [00:38:08] team [00:38:08] meetings or. [00:38:09] The happy hour that might’ve happened after that, or a dinner or breakfast, depending on the location individuals were at. [00:38:16] , but also thinking about what’s going to happen as it relates to promotion opportunity for individuals. , because there is a [00:38:23] feeling in, in [00:38:24] , some realms [00:38:25] of thought, [00:38:25] if you will. [00:38:26] The closer you are. If I see you every day, it’s going to make a difference in [00:38:29] terms of that, [00:38:30] that ability to be promoted. [00:38:32] So how can we train our managers on what you should really be looking for? , when you are doing a calibration, are you considering promotions? What is the criteria that we’re going through? And so that we can be very objective about [00:38:43] that in army managers with [00:38:44] the information [00:38:45] that. [00:38:46]

Simon Mainwaring:
Right. And I’m going to, I’m going to ask you a question that is so selfish, which is as of an employer, I’ve always wanted one. [00:38:52] And what is the best question to ask a potential candidate of all the questions we always ask? So, you know, what do you. What do you think is the best question that you might ask and also on the other side of the table, as a potential employee, what is the best question you could ask a potential employer with a view to finding the right fit? [00:39:09] What would you say [00:39:10]

Carina Cortez:
With the [00:39:10] view to finding [00:39:11] the right [00:39:12] fit. [00:39:13] I don’t know if there’s a really like one question to ask to be Frank with you. And I really think it’s having [00:39:18] a lot of [00:39:18] different data points available to you. , so again, as [00:39:21] I mentioned before, [00:39:22] leveraging. Glassdoor is a great way to find information about an organization. [00:39:27] And so if you see something in [00:39:29] the review [00:39:29] that you’ve just looked at, you might want to ask a question about that. So for instance, if you’re seeing that you’re trying to get in a software engineer role, and a lot of the software [00:39:37] engineers are talking [00:39:38] about, you know, the tools that they may or may not have at their disposal, dig in a little bit on that to find out more. [00:39:44] from the employer about that, I think it’s really personal. , and people need to, to ask those questions to make an [00:39:50] informed decision [00:39:51] about the choices that they make. [00:39:53] And [00:39:53] I think [00:39:53] the other [00:39:54] question [00:39:54] you [00:39:54] asked [00:39:54] was [00:39:54] about [00:39:55] from [00:39:55] an [00:39:55] employer, [00:39:55] is [00:39:55] there [00:39:56] one [00:39:56] question [00:39:56] that you want [00:39:57] to ask [00:39:57] your employees? [00:39:58] I always like to understand why they’re thinking of joining the organization. Like, what was it that, that drew you to the company? , and so just hearing that the explanation, the person provides digging a little bit deeper into that, just to make sure again, that there is a good fit, because again, I think it’s an interview on both sides as. [00:40:17] Are you the right fit for our organization, but, , they’re also assessing you on that as well. And so to try to, , again, go back to that employee value proposition, the given the get, making sure that those things are in alignment is really important for me. [00:40:31]

Simon Mainwaring:
So why are you optimistic Corrina? Because it feels like the HR Glassdoor culture discussion is now front center, and there’s a better calibration between employers and employees. [00:40:44] And there’s more challenges, but it’s supporting us to be more adaptive and responsive to our employee base. Like, why are you optimistic about the future of the workplace? So the things that you sort of get excited. [00:40:55]

Carina Cortez:
absolutely. I think that through transparency, , people are sharing information more freely. And so, , in the spirit of being able to hire the right person at the right time, there’s a lot more opportunity for that moving forward, because people are very transparent about how they’re feeling. , and employers have the opportunity to respond to that in an appropriate way. Based upon again, what their employees are telling them that they are. [00:41:18] , I think that that’s just a jungle gym of opportunities for an HR practitioner to be able to get in and say, here are the things that we should be doing. You have real hard data at your disposal with all of the information that, that people are sharing with you and doing something with it is just so critically important. [00:41:35] , I think things like the employee engagement, , What you do as a result of any surveys that you do about pulsing your employees, about how they’re feeling about engagement itself, listening to feedback you’re hearing in your exit interviews. It’s so ripe with information, kind of triangulate that with the information you see on a fishbowl or a glass door, you [00:41:54] have everything available to you to really meet the needs of your employees and to make the changes necessary, , in your organization, which, you know, I think that the HR organization is from. [00:42:04]

Simon Mainwaring:
I, I couldn’t agree more. I think those in HR or chief people, officers are now the storytellers of the brand did the business builders of the company. They can really affect the health and wellbeing of employees in Korean. I want to say thank you for sharing the insights and also for what Glassdoor is doing, because I think that transparency has really shifted the balance in the right way to better serve employees. [00:42:24] So they can really make informed decisions for their own future and it forces employers to level up their game. And that only helps their business ultimately as well. So thank you so much for the time and the insights today. [00:42:35]

Carina Cortez:
absolutely. [00:42:36] It was ] approached just spending time with ] you, Simon. Thank you so much. [00:42:39]

Simon Mainwaring:
Thanks for joining us for another episode of lead with. Our show is produced by goal 17 media. And you can always find more information about our guests in the show notes of each episode. Make sure you follow lead with weight on apple podcasts, Spotify, and Google podcasts. If you really love the show, share it with your friends and colleagues. [00:42:59] You can also watch our episodes on YouTube, but we first TV. And if you’re looking to go even deeper into the world of purposeful business, check out my new book and wall street journal bestseller lead with wi which is available at Amazon Barnes and noble and Google books. See you again soon. And until then, let’s all lead with we.