Jessica Rolph:
Thank you so much, Simon. I’m so happy to be. [00:02:14]

Simon Mainwaring:
So Jessica, you and I are very similar in that we’re both arguably accidental entrepreneurs. [00:02:21] That I never wanted to start a company. I never wanted to write books. I never wanted to speak to all these things that I do now, but I felt like there was a need to put something out there into the world that might have value. How did it happen for you? Because I read that you said you’re not that cute. [00:02:36] Who had the lemonade stand at age, eight or nine. So how did it [00:02:39]

Jessica Rolph:
begin? Yeah, it really began from personal experience. Like so many of us, we have an experience in life and we see a need and an opening. And for me, you know, one of the most powerful experiences we can have as humans is to, , have babies and, and raise children. [00:02:54] And so when I had my own children, I was actually, , already had co-founded a company in organic baby food. So that was my co-founder’s idea. And so we were working so hard to bring good nutrition to babies everywhere through a mass market brand sold in target and, you know, Walmart and Amazon, and I knew so much about nutrition. [00:03:16] There was, there’s so much to know about. What foods really create for the best start in life. And I had my own babies and I felt so confident. It was like this real, you know, awareness and confidence that my one year old was, you know, one of his first words was sardines. And he had like, you know, the kind of gross sardine bones hanging out of his mouth. [00:03:32] And he was just, it was like this, you know, picture of health, but also, you know, kind of shock, right. To see him. I found myself wondering though what was happening with his developing brain. And, you know, I think that we can go very deep into. Really thinking about purpose and our life and, and what we care about. [00:03:50] And for me, I found myself, you know, wanting a moment of connection with him was on the floor with him, with one of those flashing lights, tabletop toys, where he pulled himself up and it’s all plastic. And he pushes one button and all of a sudden, a, you know, purple cow pops out and music starts playing. [00:04:05] And I found myself wondering, what is the purpose of this toy and what is this doing for his development? And so in that, oh my God, [00:04:11]

Simon Mainwaring:
you’ll you’ll, you’re like the. Customer for anyone putting a product out there. What is going on here right now? What is the intention behind this product? I love that [00:04:20]

Jessica Rolph:
exactly, but there is nothing more important. [00:04:22] You know, I had read, you know, I think we all kind of, as parents have been getting the, the sort of panicked data from a public service announcement, that 90% of the human brain is developed by age five, you know, 80% by age three. It’s like, you, you hear this stuff, but then you see your environment and you’re like, what, how is this all adding up? [00:04:39] Because I’m not, there’s no guidebook, right. I go to the pediatrician’s office. I know this circumference of my child’s head. Um, how many inches it is, but I have no idea of how to help them and help to help them in these early years. And so. Discovered, this is sort of like maybe the part of the, the story. [00:04:55] That’s not really believable, but it’s so real. I discovered this doctoral thesis that was written on in infant brain development by an author who had done a survey of all the research that was done at the time on early childhood development. And he creatively packaged it into this program where I had these activities that I could do with my baby , and really show him the world. [00:05:16] So I got rid of the plastic lights, flashing toys. I found myself making my own, Black and white cards and sawing off the end of a PVC pipe and making a tube and, giving him tissue boxes to destroy and distract and, and coming up with all this sort of real life play. And in that experience felt so confident and felt like I really knew what was happening with his development and all these windows that were opening and closing in his brain. [00:05:40] I just felt so connected to him. So I started giving this thesis out to all my friends with babies. You know, when you have a baby, you usually have friends with babies. And so, you know, gave it to everybody and said, this is life changing. This is so powerful. Like, you’ll just see your child light up. It’s so meaningful. [00:05:54] And not one friend was interested in the, in this paper. It was like super dry, boring, like, no, thank you. Not interested. So I just started spending time just turning on this problem. How could we create an awakening for parents in finding joy in connecting with their children around these meaningful development moments? [00:06:12] And there, , was the sort of beginning idea for love every. I think, [00:06:15]

Simon Mainwaring:
you know, all those parents you showed are probably like, how do I get an extra half an hour’s sleep? Yes. They’re like, that is the greatest challenge of childhood development. No, I totally understand. I mean, the relationship with your own child could not be more personal or powerful. [00:06:28] How did you make that distinction between identifying a need and actually going, you know, this is a business opportunity. How do you, especially if you’re not predisposed to be an entrepreneur, as you say, , how did you look at it and go, oh wow. This is something I’ve gotta commit to. What was that light bulb moment? [00:06:44]

Jessica Rolph:
Yeah. You know, I think in life, you know, we all ask ourselves, , what is our purpose and where can we make a difference? And where can we make an impact? We see so much pain in the world and so much happening that is, there’s a need, there’s a calling. And then we also have our jobs where we need to really, , provide for our families or we need to feel like we have, , work for me. [00:07:01] I just felt this kind of deep sense of purpose. Really creating a mass market opportunity for an awakening for parents in America, to understand how important the early years are and to have tools and confidence building, information and an approach that was holistic that would really help guide them. [00:07:20] And so I don’t, it’s hard to pinpoint that moment. I think I had seen what you could do for the organic food industry by co-founding happy family. We became, when we first started only 3% of all baby food was consumed, was organic. And now over 40% of all baby food consumed as organic and the happy family is the number one organic brand number two, only to Gerber. [00:07:40] So we were able to make a mass market sort of approach that was really appealing to something that was very specific and purposeful around health, nutrition, and climate. And then. Toys, you know, you kind of see this, like all this stuff, and once you see it, you can’t unsee it. You can’t unsee the clutter, you can’t unsee the purposelessness of what the industry, have been giving to parents. [00:08:03] And I just kinda can, can help yourself to, but to follow, follow that guide. [00:08:08]

Simon Mainwaring:
I think that’s really powerful what you’re saying, because you know, in as much as you’re creating toys and education sort of opportunities for young minds, you’re really unlocking the awareness of parents. You’re educating them. [00:08:20] You’re creating that awareness for them, that there is a better, and another way of doing things. And I wanna sort of push in on the industry as it existed at that point, because you know, there’s a problem solution opportunity that you saw. I mean, we’re all aware that there’s a lot of plastic in the industry. [00:08:33] We’re all aware that, , there’s a lot of bells and whistles going on and we’re not really sure what they’re doing. We don’t have a framework for the sort of neurological growth of a child. That’s not something that’s communicated through the products, but what would you say the biggest gaps. In the industry. [00:08:46] Were, was it just a lack of connection between the toys they were playing with and the development of the child? Was it as, was it as a gross gap as that? Or was it just that, you know, there was more that could be done. Was there a next level? It could go to. [00:08:59]

Jessica Rolph:
Yeah, I think the gap is actually the parent gap. [00:09:02] Cause we have stuff in our homes, you know, toys are designed to, to, and to support development for the most part, especially in the zero to three range, you know, there’s some developmental elements, oftentimes you’ll throw on the ABCs, you’ll throw on the one, two threes and you’ll have some shape order and it’ll become like, you know, in a bunch of bright colors and that will be developmental. [00:09:21] The question is, is what is helpful and appropriate for my child at which stage? So how do I actually help them? And wow, they can’t sort shapes until 18, 19 months. I thought that babies did that. You know, it’s like all these questions the parents have and they, they don’t start, you know, knowing one-to-one correspondence and being able to count until they’re like three or four, but that toy has the one, two threes on it. [00:09:42] So. What is the purpose? So I think for, for me, it was really about that parent communication. And, you know, I wanna kind of take a step back because you asked before we started, how can we get down to the specifics and a little bit more of the nitty gritty, the, how I will say that these concept marinated in my brain over years of being with my children. [00:10:02] So this wasn’t like I had one big aha moment and it was like, let me activate and start a business. It was like unraveling sort of the pieces and the elements and going into a target store and talking to a friend or, , testing out a product or researching a Montessori, the Montessori method and what it’s, what’s done in, in infant classrooms. [00:10:22] , And then discovering that there are subscription businesses and that they’re really on the rise. Not that I didn’t know that there were subscription businesses, but really a lot of subscription businesses were scaling at the time that we were starting to think about this business. [00:10:34] And so starting to overlay that business model to this stage based purposeful play and parent education, it all sort of came together over years. [00:10:43]

Simon Mainwaring:
And, you know, I get a sense that it’s sort of the takes shape of its own as you push further into it. Doesn’t it. And what I think is really powerful that way you’re communicating is. [00:10:51] You are unlocking the agency of the parent through education and awareness to do better by their child. And I think what many brands fail to realize today that it’s not about saying look at what we are doing and by our staff, but rather saying our brand is a platform that empowers you to make a difference in the lives of those that you care about. [00:11:11] And then that, that experience of the company is very different. And the role that the products play in their lives is very different when you approach it that way. So let me ask you this. When originally those parents, those other parents, those friends that you spoke to, who weren’t initially interested in the thesis around neurological development and so on, when you started to build out the business, how did you win over parents? [00:11:31] How did you communicate that story? Because as my experience of a parent of two, you know, at our children, now, all I could do was just keep them alive. That was a win. So how did you, how did you let them know that there’s a more meaningful role for them to play. That is [00:11:45]

Jessica Rolph:
such a good question. That was the, that was the core question. [00:11:49] That every time I would kind of ruminate and think about this business and map things out, I was like, will, do parents actually want this? Do they, are they so overwhelmed with this parenting? Just the challenges of parenting, you know, emotional, like meltdowns and lack of sleep and wondering how to kind of absorb these new lives into your own life. [00:12:09] Are they ready for a program that is, , supportive for brain development? You know, I, I think that it was, our main question. At Stanford there’s a design thinking model and we hacked that model and did our own test our own version with 25 families across the country. So we found some families, you know, were in our sweet spot of, we thought that they were Montessori. [00:12:30] Aligned that they were really interested in development products that they were maybe interested in homeschooling their, their babies, their children, other parents , had their fifth child on public assistance, really struggling to make ends meet. Other families, , were, , all across the country. [00:12:44] Really kind of like two working parents, you know, frankly, very little time to spend with their child. And we, we simulated the experience of following these babies and these families for a year of their life. So we hack together these really ugly prototypes. And I will say that ugly prototypes are the best kind, because nobody feels like they’re gonna hurt your feelings when they, they tell you how terrible it is and they give you real feedback. [00:13:06] And, and we hack together this little guidebook and put together these simulated, these. Play kits, what became the play kits and evolved them over time. And we found in our studies, this big aha that you know is so obvious now, of course parents want the best for their children. This is not, I shouldn’t have questioned this. [00:13:24] Of course they do. [00:13:25]

Simon Mainwaring:
When they get older, they go maybe not so much with my second child, he’s really misbehaved right now. I want the best for you, but yes, I [00:13:31]

Jessica Rolph:
want the best for you or the second and the third child, you know, they’re thinking like, shoot, I gave my first baby so much attention, right? How can I possibly give more to my second? [00:13:40] This love, every stage based learning program helps me to make the most of that time that I do have with them and helps me feel like I am giving them the best. So, you know, that was a universal desire and we were able to tap into that. In four key ways. Number one, the products had to be beautiful. They had to be Instagram ready. [00:13:57] And to be honest, a lot of the toys out in the market are not pretty. Yeah. And so you really need to appeal to, , the senses and inspiration. , number two, we didn’t wanna lean into this like sciencey brand. Our first, , name was actually smart, baby. It was a placeholder name and we knew it wasn’t right, but it was trying to get at the essence of what we were doing. [00:14:15] We changed the brand name to love every, because we really wanted to be about love and connection and emotion. , knowing that that is such a core need for parents, especially in America, , number three, , we wanted to make it convenient for parents. So the subscription model and stage based learning that shows up your doorstep that can change behavior, right? [00:14:32] If you don’t have to work too hard to research all the toys, , then that really makes sense. And then fourth, we just really wanted to have this empathetic voice and obsess over every word of content and pull together all this research and from. Occupational therapists, Montessori experts, speech and language therapists, child development specialists, preschool teachers pulled it all together in this very tight, warm, empathetic voice. [00:14:54] It’s just kind of smart, but also warm, , and very distilled and very kinda specific. So we wanted to do all those things to create the sort of best package and best chance at being successful. [00:15:04]

Simon Mainwaring:
And I wanna sort of create some sort of timeline here, because you talked about different stages from identifying the need , as a function of your connection to your own children, and then doing the research and, and going out to the stores and identifying subscription models. [00:15:18] And then you built the prototypes, , and the kits. And then you collected the core team that would sort of fill out the point of departure, which is you wanted to, you know, toys to be informed by childhood development and neurological health. And so on. Is that fair? Is that the sort of the trajectory that you took on the way and how long was that period? [00:15:36] How long did that take. [00:15:37]

Jessica Rolph:
Yeah, I’ll it took about, uh, four years. And the biggest catalyst, I guess, from the very beginning, maybe six or seven years, I can’t even remember when I started, you know, thinking about it. I guess I can think about it related to my children’s birth. So I started thinking about when my first was born, he’s now 12, , and then started in earnest, working on it when I connected with my co-founder. [00:15:57] So that was the catalyst that really made this real for me, was partnering with my co-founder rod Morris, who I’d known for 20 years is my best friend’s husband. [00:16:05] And he and I were talking just about being a business one day. And I was sharing with him, this new idea and asking for his advice and he said, why don’t we co-found the company? So that was what then kicked off the testing process and the sort of refinement and the real business work to make love every, , something that was. [00:16:23] Real in the world. [00:16:24]

Simon Mainwaring:
So let me ask you a very parental question. [00:16:26] Before we move onto the products, how did you balance building out a new company and having young children? Because there are so many sort of innate entrepreneurs that want to get out there that wanna make a difference, but they’re kind of trying to throttle between raising a family, paying the bills and making a difference through, , impact in the world. [00:16:45] So what was that like? It’s so hard. [00:16:47]

Jessica Rolph:
First of all, I have a very supportive partner. So in terms of the paying the bills, you know, he really supported us when I was building happy family. And that was really meaningful. You know, my husband Decker has been so supportive. He kind of couldn’t believe it. I wanted to go for this second time and that’s a whole nother podcast to talk about how that works. [00:17:04] Hi, [00:17:04]

Simon Mainwaring:
honey. I’d like to talk to you about my next business. okay. There’s a long silence after that always. Right? [00:17:10]

Jessica Rolph:
Exactly. Exactly. I think, you know, for me, it’s about what you’re not doing. So I have a really messy house. I didn’t have like, you know, the perfect warm meal on the table every night. We sort of, you know, have like some frozen peas that will heat up and maybe a quesadillas. it was about what I didn’t do. You know, I’m not great at writing. Thank you notes or being on top of all of the sort of perfect details. I never had great gifts for my kids for their birthdays or their friends’ birthdays. I. You know, copy paste a gift card to a local toy store and just have a bunch of those pile in the cupboard. [00:17:41] So it’s, it’s about letting go of a lot of things in order to focus and create space, because what is important to me is being present with my children and being present with the people that I love, like my husband and my parents. And then also being, , just the best I can be in terms of building a business. [00:17:58] It’s [00:17:58]

Simon Mainwaring:
interesting you say that because I think all of us, especially after the last two or three years, which have been so hard on everyone, I think we prioritize appearances or the optics of a business too much, and we don’t take good enough care about ourselves and we don’t prioritize the right things. [00:18:11] So I think it’s really powerful what you’re sharing. And I think it’s a real permission for everyone listening to kind of recognize that everyone struggles to get it done and often, or more often than not, we’re not taking as good a care of ourselves as we want to. And we don’t need to show up in a way that, , meets everybody’s expectations if we are really committed to something. [00:18:27] So I really appreciate you saying that. And so as we shift to the toys themselves, or, , these stimulants for neurodevelopment and so on. You mentioned that there needed to be Instagram worthy. And I think we all truly understand why that’s important because firstly it’s the polar opposite to the garishly colored, bright luminous products that get littered over, around through our houses and that we tread on in the middle of the night and curse. [00:18:49] But also I think that’s appropriate to either the audience you’re speaking to, or the simplicity of the architecture of the toys and their role in Euro development. So talk to us about the products. Like what was the point of departure in your. [00:19:04]

Jessica Rolph:
Yeah, it was really about, you know, kind of core purpose, which is, you know, the space that you talk about so often in such an inspiring way, but it’s, it’s inspiring that purpose. [00:19:13] So for us it’s how do you create simplicity and design and bring it back to this essential nature without all the extras, without all the things that we think of as a toy, if you strip it down to just, what’s purely of interest to a child, , you can find so much joy and beauty in that simplicity. And so one of our products that we love to talk about, or is this clear, literally a clear plastic tube, you wouldn’t think of this as a toy. [00:19:40] It’s just a clear plastic tube. It’s like, why did this come in? This kit is the most loved. Item for a nine, 10 month old baby that is working on understanding the concept of containment. They love putting a ball or a block and dropping that ball or block and watching it go through the tube and then come out the other end, just like they love to put things into pots and pans and let them watch them contained in a Potter or pan. [00:20:03] They love to watch something not be contained. And so it’s bringing things down to that sort of essential nature. And then when you do that and you apply sort of, you know, a simple color palette and something that’s really like thoughtful, it inspires the parent and it makes you feel like when you’re surrounded by beautiful things, you feel inspired to be your, best self. [00:20:22] Like we, we do feel inspired by our aesthetic. [00:20:25]

Simon Mainwaring:
You speak, you know, in very fluid ways about, you’ve got two audiences here, the parent and the child and the child can’t communicate on their own behalf. What sort of feedback loop did you create with parents to get affirmation that your different approach was actually working and to also get market traction for your product? [00:20:41] Like, how did you establish, how did you carve out that beach head for your. [00:20:46]

Jessica Rolph:
Yeah, well, I will say we made some mistakes. So what, one of the things that we first did is we did, , our brand level survey and our, our product level surveys. And we would send them out pretty much like a week after we would, , send out our, our products. [00:20:58] And that’s, that’s typical in the industry. You know, you send, send out a survey when they’re still fresh of mind, we found is that parents ranked our products based on what they thought was the best in the kit. So they would rank, you know, certain items and thought that, , certain things that looked cute or looked better, more interesting were, were better. [00:21:15] We then found that, , a lot of these items, like the clear plastic tube ranked lower than we thought we were like, wait a minute. And all of our play testing, hundreds of hours of play studies that we did with babies and children, these were the top items. And so we’re like, what is the difference here? [00:21:29] And so then we actually spaced our survey. It was just a timing thing. We spaced our survey. Seven weeks after the, , receipt of the kit in the home. And all of a sudden the things like the clear plastic tube or these heavy and light balls that literally look identical, but one of them is really heavy and sinks in the bath. [00:21:45] The other is light and floats. Those were the items that bubbled up to the top because parents discovered the joy and the learning that their child was having with the play things. So it wasn’t about the parent perception. We’re really speaking to the child, but we’re trying to draw that parent in, , and keep them engaged in understanding the value, um, and doing that you on a scroll, you know, when they’re shopping or be able to just see something is very different than bringing it into their home. [00:22:11]

Simon Mainwaring:
You know, you’ve got the power of eCommerce on your side, you’ve got a subscription model, but that also puts some distance between you and that parent. And yet you’re armed with this data where you are getting these surveys back and you’re seeing what’s working and what’s not. So, you know, it’s a very crowded space, the toy space. [00:22:28] And there’s a lot of well known brands there that just the top of mind for everyone, people typically when they’re shorter time default to who, who they know or what they know. So how did you through a subscription model build the business? Was it word of mouth? Was it taking that data and, and letting people see the, the case for why they should consider your product? [00:22:47] How did it [00:22:47]

Jessica Rolph:
grow? Yeah. So 60% of our customers come to us through word of mouth right now. And that is a statistic that we’re very proud of. Our retention metrics are really strong. We’ve, we’ve scaled really quickly. I will say though, that you’ve gotta get that crank going somehow. And what we decided when rod and I co-founded the company, we decided that we wanted to go big. [00:23:08] And so that meant raising outside capital. That meant, , really you, those early rounds are so stressful and hard raising from friends and family, trying to convince people to believe in you, even if you’re a second time entrepreneur, that isn’t always a straightforward process, but we decided we wanted to scale as quickly as we could. [00:23:25] Rod runs revenue and growth for us. And, you know, really understanding how we can acquire those. Those customers has been, , a part of the art right. Of, of eCommerce is being able to run the right ads and communicate the right influencer strategy. But we’ve finally got into this place where there’s so much word of mouth and that engine is going, that it it’s really. [00:23:45] Gotten the momentum it needs to, to [00:23:47]

Simon Mainwaring:
scale. And what was the big unlock? Was it the aesthetic of the products? Because that’s one door that a customer or parent might walk through? Was it the sort of science based rigor of it? Was it, just people being so joyful. There’s an alternative to garish plastic, brightly colored, , options out there. [00:24:03] What do you think was the, what was, what got that crank going? [00:24:07]

Jessica Rolph:
I think it’s the, the meaning of the products and what they, what parents discovered in their children, through the products, what skills that they discovered that their child didn’t even know that they had the confidence in knowing that they were taking care of their child in the very best way in the most important time. [00:24:23] And what we didn’t have is it’s really hard to communicate about the company or the brand or the products without experiencing them. And so, again, it was super important for us to do a lot of gifting and a lot of kind of getting that crank going a lot of, , ads. , and then once it, once it started finding momentum, people got the products into their home and they were amazed at the quality. [00:24:43] They were amazed at the thoughtfulness of the experience we obsess over every single detail. And so that unboxing experience and that play experience, because we’ve tested it in with hundreds of hours of play studies, it works. And so that the product being great really helps. I think that’s [00:24:59]

Simon Mainwaring:
key. And so, I understand from a qualitative point of view, there’s much more science and, um, childhood development informing the products, but at a novice parental level, who’s someone who’s sitting there on the floor with their one year old or two year old. [00:25:14] What did that look like? What was the difference? What were they happier? Were they more stimulated? Were they more joyful? What did you hear in that feedback? [00:25:21]

Jessica Rolph:
I think we heard is that there was like one to one connection that they didn’t feel before with their baby. You know, oftentimes we sleep, train them or focus on their sleep, focus on feeding them. [00:25:31] But what do they do during, when they’re awake and they’re happy, you know, is you’re kind of like walking around with your baby or you’re bouncing them or you’re, you know, you’re toddler, you’re wondering what they’re interested in. They’re kind of, , deconstructing the, the cupboards in the house, but you know, what more can you give them for experiences and how can you feel connected? [00:25:48] Right. So what we found. That UN to helping parents tune into these development windows that are opening and closing in their child’s brain actually helps the parent feel so connected to their child and empowered and confident themselves. Yeah, so it creates this really virtuous cycle where the parent is engaging with the child, which is so good for their development. [00:26:08] The child is engaging with these items that are tools for learning. The parent has a guide to help them know all these different ways to play. They’re really simple and joyful, and it just, it creates a lot of positive experiences and memories for parents to then want to. [00:26:23]

Simon Mainwaring:
And I think what you shared earlier about the emotional story and how you change. [00:26:26] The name is very important because the currency we trade in business really is emotion. It’s not transactional. We’re not exchanging dollars for products. You’re answering a need in somebody in the case of a parent, probably more so than any other point in their life and new parent you wanna do well by your child. [00:26:41] And there’s an opportunity inherent in that from an emotional point of view, if you can empower them to leverage their agency, to see a difference in their child, that’s that feeling you are selling. The parent is the real product that makes all the difference. I mean, you’re such a, a great lesson in that, and it’s not surprising when you have, you know, such a purposeful intention that the products are, , made from wood and they’re responsible to the planet and so on. [00:27:05] And so on. Tell us a little bit more about that and how you hold yourself accountable in terms of the integrity of the product in terms of the kids’. [00:27:14]

Jessica Rolph:
Yeah, so that this is so such a, you know, heavy topic climate, it weighs heavily on me. It weighs heavily on families, especially families with young children, because we don’t know what world they’re inheriting and we feel responsible. [00:27:26] And so that is alive for so many parents. And I think as a brand, it’s really ingrained in us to make the hard choices around sustainably harvested wood. That’s, you know, more expensive, frankly, quite a bit more expensive than, you know, would this not FSC certified, , organic certified fabrics, uh, that, you know, if you run a survey for our customers, only 40% really value the organic fabrics in our products. [00:27:50] 60% would rather we just put in more stuff or lower the price. Right. But we’re still committing to those standards. The one hardest thing that we’ve really committed to that logistically is very hard to scale, but we are a hundred percent committed to it is supporting the longest life possible of our products. [00:28:07] So that means if you have a puzzle or if you have a number counter toy with, you know, 27 parts that we will support and , give you that red, , little Fox that you’re missing, that goes with the number counter, we will ship you just that product, that one item, if you’re missing that one to, to make the product whole again. [00:28:26] And you know, that is so important because that supports the longevity. You know, I think that that, it’s that kind of basic stuff. That’s so logical that often gets missed by bigger brands or by, you know, just obviously, you know, which is it’s hard to do. And so if you have to, if you build it in from the beginning into the ethos of your company, it’s, it’s easier to hang onto. [00:28:48]

Simon Mainwaring:
So I’ll give you two head scratcher questions. One is, , when you’re paying more, for example, of the, the certified wood and so on, were the economy of scales or scale there in the sense that you could readily convince people that they’re gonna pay maybe a little bit more to get this product, but it’s better for their child. [00:29:05] And that wasn’t an issue, or how did you address the cost issue? And then also whether it’s a question of growth or whether it’s a question of the number of products out there in the world, every company of every type is struggling with the idea of more like, even when you’re doing it responsibly, you’re putting more products out there in the world. [00:29:21] Even if that product has a much longer life cycle, because it’s made in a certain way and parts get replaced. So how did you address the cost issue and how do you address the idea of more the consumption. [00:29:32]

Jessica Rolph:
The cost issue. I think that the quality just shines through, you know, the quality of our supply chain, the obsessiveness and the thoughtfulness. [00:29:39] We work at the, we produce the number one, uh, sustainably harvested wood factory in the world. You can feel it in the quality of the product. So I think that that really justifies the price for consumers. That is something that we really stand behind and you feel it when you open that kit, [00:29:54] So then what do we do about more? This is such a key question. I think for us, it’s about the answer is human potential. [00:30:01] So we actually feel like we’re work, help families work with less and with more purpose through our play things than they would if they just had a bunch of toys coming in the door and, , we know that there are new babies being born every day. And so if we can make our products last and they support human potential, there isn’t a better purpose for that organic material that was put into that product to make that product arrive at that parent’s home. [00:30:26] So it’s about great design, sustainable design, and you know, really the fact that the purpose is so important. So [00:30:33]

Simon Mainwaring:
yeah, if you make it right in the first place, And you give it a longer life, then it’s always gonna have that utility, no matter what, because as you say, there are more babies being born all the time. [00:30:44] I mean, there’s been a pile on, in the last few years around ESG sustainability purpose across all the different brands. How do you carve out, , a differentiated message in such a competitive category? Like toys, because you know, different companies are, re-engineering their packaging, they’re launching new products and so on. [00:31:02] How do you stay competitive in top of mind? [00:31:05]

Jessica Rolph:
You know, it’s interesting. I think what we’ve done is just what’s intuitive. What makes sense to us. So when you, when I open a package, I bought some organic sheets once and I opened the package. And all of a sudden it was like in these also organic bags. And then there was like a bunch of paper around it. [00:31:20] And there was like boxes, all these nice cardboard boxes within a big carbo box. And it was just like, I had so much recycling from buying a few sets of organic sheets. I, I couldn’t believe it. And yes, it was, none of it was single use plastic, but it was just a ton of packaging. So from the beginning, when we designed Lovery we designed our products to be as tight fitting as possible in the kits. [00:31:43] Actually, that’s not true. We actually launched with. Six items that were not tight fitting because we didn’t know the items. And then we quickly tight packed those boxes. So that’s part of the evolution. I will say that, you know, part of the evolution of the brand is to really always try and do better, but right now we know exactly what’s going into that kit so we can tight pack those boxes. [00:32:03] We don’t have single use plastic, but that’s just because we don’t wanna open single use plastic when we open products at home and we don’t wanna have a ton of recycling, , cardboard that fills up your recycle bin. So it’s, it’s about doing what’s logical, what you would want for yourself. And then I think being confident about those decisions, again, you know, I was. [00:32:21] I played a game with my kids and I was missing a piece and I was like, I just contacted the company. I was like, could you just send me this one piece? I, sorry, I’m missing it. It’s, you know, there’s 20 of these and I’m just missing one. I’ll pay whatever on shipping and I’ll pay $10 for the piece. But I just want that one piece instead, I was told that I needed to buy a whole new product to just replace that one piece and then I’m stuck. [00:32:41] And so how do we just create experiences that make sense to people? You know, if your D my dog ate the, you know, card that came with this, can I just get that one card replaced? Absolutely. So I think it’s about doing what’s logical. What makes sense for your customer and your particular specific industry and doing what you would want as a customer, [00:33:00]

Simon Mainwaring:
and then how do you. [00:33:02] Take this to scale. I mean, based on recent funding, the company’s now valued at around 800 million. If not more, it’s an enormous success. It’s got, you know, high growth trajectory, but there must be pain points when you’re doing things, you know, when you’re operating with such integrity, in terms of the quality of the products, the materials that go in it, service that you do to the customer. [00:33:20] What, what is the challenge right now is you take this forever greater. [00:33:24]

Jessica Rolph:
I mean, it’s a lot of little things are the challenges everywhere for scale. I think it’s hard to kind of pinpoint one thing. I will say that the organic, you know, momentum has been really positive, , from a supply chain and logistics standpoint, we could not have been hit harder by all of the sort of global supply chain challenges. [00:33:43] Our warehouse has been in Idaho and we’ve been shipping out of there and it’s been really hard for them to keep up and to scale. And so we’re moving warehouses right now as we speak. , and we’ve got, you know, stuff that doesn’t fit in the new warehouse and, and how do we bring back the returns and Polish them up again and ship them out if they’ve never been open, if the box has never been opened before, if it was just a shipping return. [00:34:05] So it’s just all the, the, the logistics related to scaling, I think are just a constant. I would say, you know, as a philosophy, the, the antidote to all of it is staying so close to your customer. And I think that’s something that people don’t do as they scale. They don’t take the time to have a one on one with a customer or have focus groups, or, you know, I, I really value and our team really values our, both talking to the parents and staying connect to the babies throughout the process and making sure that the thesis that we’re building upon is. [00:34:38] Is so trusted, right? We, we just continue to stay so close to that customer and what’s evolved. What’s been a joyful evolution of that is that we’re actually now co-creating with our customers, new products, new books, , new, you know, services. , and so getting that feedback and integrating it, and then coming up with a new idea in, in connection with our customers, it’s been really [00:34:58]

Simon Mainwaring:
powerful. [00:34:59] And I wanna ask you about that because I’ve seen other companies out there unrelated, but like Chiobani the yoga company and others they’ve actually reframed what they do. They make products like Greek yoga and so on, but they actually provide a suite of services that help young families understand how to bring nutrition into their family’s lives. [00:35:16] So there’re as much a lifestyle brand as they are a product brand. Is that where you are going and as much as you provide support above and beyond the products , and the science that informs the product. [00:35:26]

Jessica Rolph:
Yeah. I mean, I would say for us, it’s just baked in because our, you know, that that doctoral thesis that I was handing out to friends is the service. [00:35:34] If you will, it’s the it’s the mission of our business is to be able to inform parents and give them just the right information at the right time. So what’s often overlooked. When you look on the outside of our business, you see a box of toys. What people understand when they become subscribers is that it’s a program of development that unfolds and all that parent content, that parent connection through our email, you know, list through our play guides, we’ve developed a parent app that has activities and, and expert videos of ways to play all of that content really enriches and informs parents to know just what is going on right in that moment in time for their child’s development. [00:36:12] So I think leaning into that more and more, and how can we be of service, you know, and also how, where, where is our boundaries? So where, what do, where is it just too much information for parents? How do we. How do we distill down all of the science into these really manageable bites? Because to your first point, parents are busy, they’re sleep deprived. [00:36:31] You know, they don’t need all the information they need just the right information at the right time. [00:36:35]

Simon Mainwaring:
Come on. I know I love nothing more at 11 o’clock at night, after a long day to be handed in urological childhood development sheet that I need to read before I go to bed. I mean, what husband doesn’t want that? [00:36:44] No, I, I completely agree. And I have to ask you, I mean, we are all purposeful companies and there’s only so much we can do on our own and entire industries are complicit in the problem, but they’re also responsible for the solution. So what are you doing to sort of challenge the industry to level up their game? [00:37:03] Or what are you doing to work with nonprofits or partners to scale your impact? Because we need all hands on deck, right? [00:37:10]

Jessica Rolph:
I love this question at happy family. We, I felt the burden of putting all of these P we brought pouches, you know, online to the us market. You know, I don’t know if you know those squeezy pouches that babies use and toddlers use, but we were one of the key brands to, to really make that a, a form factor for parents, a convenient form factor from an environmental perspective. [00:37:30] It’s actually much better than the glass than the glass jars. The glass jars are heavy. They get transported, , overseas, they come in in trucks, but from the end consumer perspective, it’s really disappointing when that pouch is not recyclable. We worked really hard at happy family to solve that problem. [00:37:47] And in solving that problem, you know, the weight of. You know, really is upon us. And we created a climate collaborative. So I co-founded an organization. That’s now across the whole industry, the natural products industry, there are 600 company member companies in this climate collaborative, and they’re all working on the same eight topics. [00:38:05] So there’s topics around policy, food waste, , sustainable agriculture that are all very packaging that are bespoke to that industry where we can share knowledge. What we’ve not done is done that for the toy industry at love. Every, and what I see is that there’s a lot of indexing towards oh, wood it’s made of wood. [00:38:23] Is it sustainably forested? That is my first question, because if it’s not. That is an issue. And so, you know, I think that we need to be thinking more thoughtfully about, , the supply chains and get together as an industry so that we can solve problems together instead of being in our silos and trying to have our own bespoke message. [00:38:41] That’s just for us rather, we like to elevate and think about how we can solve these problems in a holistic way in partnership. I think [00:38:49]

Simon Mainwaring:
that’s one of the biggest challenges in business and the biggest opportunities right now in the spirit of lead with we to recognize that you can work with otherwise competitors and solve for the entire industry and still go to market in differentiated ways, but make sure that you’re mitigating the risk of the entire industry and better serving our future. [00:39:07] You’ve just gotta put your attention and focus there. And one last one last question, which is, this is your second business. Was there one lesson that you took from the first business that made all the difference in the second? Or was there a different lesson in the second to the, what you learned in the first, what would you say. [00:39:22]

Jessica Rolph:
Yeah, I think the first business, it was a lot of intuition and that entrepreneurial insight, right. And intuition and gut feel that drove us. There wasn’t as much research. So we did a little bit of research, but really, you know, we were just gunning for, for our instincts and our gut instincts. And that can get you pretty far, but it can’t get you all the way and it doesn’t necessarily get you to product market fit when you launch a product. [00:39:47] So we launched a happy family, was frozen baby food. Retailers loved it. You know, it was, it was the press loved it. It was such a be, be photographed so beautifully, these bright green peas and this cube tray. And it was so sweet. It was a total flop from a, from a consumer perspective because it was in the freezer and parents were like, if they were gonna actually buy frozen baby food, they were happy to make it themselves. [00:40:09] And so we had to pivot and we, you know, it was really stressful trying to get to product market fit. We were behind the curve at love. Every we invested all, you know, this year, plus an actual simulated experience in testing and then many more months and you know, years in building up the business model and thinking about how we wanna build our brand and being insightful and thoughtful and tons of focus groups, tons of conversations with parents. [00:40:34] And so we’ve landed on product market fit in almost every product launched. Since we, we launched our first product, the play gym, it became number one on revenue category was cluttered with, with play gyms and ours was three times the price, but it’s all that upfront research that really made the difference, [00:40:51]

Simon Mainwaring:
right? [00:40:51] Yeah. I mean, you put the time in, you really invest in the quality of the product. And as you said, listen to the customer that is such, such a lesson for all of us, even for myself anymore, no matter where you are in business, like, you know, you’ve gotta build your, your company and your products around the customer and just stepping away from business for a second. [00:41:08] I wanna ask you as a parent who always wants the best for their kids, you have spent so much time helping nurture these young minds and human potential. Give us one piece of advice, give, tell the anxious parents out there, listening, from all that you’ve seen, what would, what council would you give us as young parents sort of trying to raise a family? [00:41:28]

Jessica Rolph:
Okay, I’m gonna age band it because that’s what I, that’s what we do. So I would say between zero and three, talk to your child. So talk to that two month old, that is not talking back to you. Talk to that newborn, sing to them. And then when there are two or there three really tune into those attempts at, you know, words and vocalizations and little sentences and show them the world. [00:41:51] So it’s really about explaining the real, what the real world is like through their eyes. They, you know, there’s just so fresh and new and giving them that back and forth. Verbal communication really builds the foundation for confidence and social, emotional learning, and also frankly, , cognitive excellence. [00:42:08]

Simon Mainwaring:
Jessica, thank you so much, , for your entrepreneurial bravery and for the integrity that you’re bringing to what you’re doing at Lovery and for the insights for every one of us anxious parents out there. Thank you. It’s been [00:42:19]

Jessica Rolph:
wonderful being here. Thank you so much. [00:42:21]

Simon Mainwaring:
Thanks for joining us for another episode of lead with we, our show is produced by goal 17 media, and you can always find more information about our guests in the show notes of each episode. [00:42:33] Make sure you follow lead with we on apple podcasts, Spotify, or Google podcasts. If you really love the show, share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you’re looking to go even deeper into the world of purposeful business, check out my new book and wall street journal bestseller lead with we, which is available, Amazon barn and noble and Google books. [00:42:52] See you again soon, and until then, let’s all lead with we.